“When I start something new, I’m not going to be an expert at day one… You have to meet yourself where you are and allow life to happen… Sometimes, you’ve got to just fight for it, and sometimes you just have to take a step back.”
Joel Primus is an entrepreneur, speaker, and filmmaker. He is the founder of the underwear company, Naked, co-founder of Kosan Travel, and author of “Getting Naked: The Bare Necessities of Entrepreneurship and Start-Ups”.
Join him as he shares little nuggets of wisdom relating to entrepreneurship and being a creator. Follow his entrepreneurial journey and how to cultivate a successful business mindset. Listen as he talks about how to nurture the clarity of purpose, being driven in how to succeed in business and in life, and how to reach success beyond limits.
“Culture, clarity of vision, and hiring the right people that fit… those [three] components of your business create a compound effect that is without comparison. You’ll start to see the effects of those three things clicking in your business… no matter what happens.”
Find more about Joel here:
Website: https://joelprimus.com/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/joel.primus/?hl=en
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelprimus/?originalSubdomain=ca
John: Thank you for listening to The Business Sphere. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this episode, joining me today is Joel Primus. Joel is a co-founder of CO sand travel and author of Naked, the bare necessities of entrepreneurship and startups. He loves to build companies and work with entrepreneurs. Thanks for joining me today, Joel.
Joel: Thanks for having me, mate. Good to be with you.
John: Well, I’m excited because not only your fellow Canadian, you’re out West and I love out West, you’re down to earth, you love to travel, your business owner. So, we have a lot to talk about. But for all the listeners that don’t know who you are, please share with the audience members a little bit about what you’re known for and I look you can go as far back as you would like, like share with the listeners your journey.
Joel: Yeah, I’ll dive in. My wife tells me I am an artist trapped in an entrepreneur’s body and I think that the older I get the, the more true or the more I understand that. You know if we, we go back I came, I grew up in a small town and my first push into the world to sort of see what it was that I could do, what I could be was through track and field, I was a long distance runner and I competed you know internationally and on Canada’s team that can that was at the World Championships and so, I got to really test what it was like to explore my potential and then, you know as life would have it I thought I was gonna go to the Olympics but I ended up rupturing my Achilles and I lost a full ride athletic scholarship and then eventually, it just is sort of devastating when I go back to it. It all just unwound. You know I lost the scholarship, I lost my place in Canada, Canada’s National Training Center and I had to reinvent myself but it didn’t start right away in business I ended up hitchhiking across the country. From my, from my hood on the west to yours I made it a little bit past Toronto and then ended up in Thailand and, and God inspired to shoot a documentary about travel which ended up taking 12 years to complete, and then somewhere in there I was in Peru, I bought this pair of underwear that inspired me to start an underwear company called Naked and at the time I started out I was I dropped out of college, and I went on Dragon’s Den which is our Shark Tank because you well know John and it was just kinda like a life of of not asking questions.
First ,doing first and then asking the questions and figuring it out later and I just kind of morphed into you know an entrepreneur who I guess if you say what was I best known for? I was known for naked underwear, which was a company that started in my garage, mentioned when on Dragon’s Den, and then ended up on the NASDAQ and was sold to an Australian lingerie company in 2018. So, that’s it in a really tight nutshell, John.
John: That’s amazing. I mean, just that whole journey of growing up as an athlete.
Joel: Yeah.
John: The mindset, the training, the the values that you have to possess to have that mindset to constantly go without knowing what’s going to happen, and did you have people like I wanna even peel that back a little bit with your parents? Do you have siblings? What was your upbringing like?
Joel: Yeah, that that’s, that’s that’s peeling it back. I think about it a lot because of the the way that, because I have kids and I have I have a kid another one coming at the end of this month and you find yourself looking back it’s like what was good about my childhood? And how do I bring that to my children in today’s day and age? Because the things that they’re dealing with are way way way more amplified than what I had to do you know I lived in a in a subdivision that was surrounded by forests and creeks and and I could walk to my school at 5 years old because my parents could see through the window, my school so they could kinda see me you know, kinda make my way there. It’s like, my 5 year old daughter would never be able to when we lived in Vancouver would never be allowed to walk to school, right? And so I just had that really simple sort of free upbringing where I, I played street hockey in the afternoons, I explored the creek whenever I wanted to you know I came home and when I was called for supper and you could no matter where you were in the neighborhood you could hear your, your parents call you, and that’s why you know, recently we moved from you know, we spent 5 years in Vancouver, we spent 2 years living in New York and we just moved to a farm about an hour and a half out of Vancouver we just wanted that freedom for our kids because I think it gave me, it taught me indirectly not specifically how to dream you know through boredom, coming up with ideas, building forts, having that freedom to you know I’m in this creek and I’ll be, I’ll be exploring up this this creek and finding salmon that have spawned there you know it’s not deep and you push into this new area of the creek and you think you’ve, you’ve uncovered a new world and then you come back there when you’re an adult and you realize this creek is like tiny like it’s not, there’s nothing to explore. It’s so tiny but as a kid, it teaches you to kind of face those fears and explore the limits of your curiosity and so I think that that’s what in part helped me become an entrepreneur, that one who was not afraid to explore what made me curious without asking a lot of questions, putting myself in a situation.
You know, we got ourselves in dumb situations like I remember trying to build a raft in this where this creek had like it, we get a lot of rain here and so they have these like watersheds and there was this blue note, basin of water and we tried to build this raft and thing like sinks in the middle and like we’re swimming in like sledge and one of the one of us could have died but we just did it right? Or maybe not, maybe it wasn’t as dangerous but that’s so that was it and then when I became a runner when I was 14, when I realized that there was some skill there because you win something and then people all of a sudden, you start to get these instant feedback loops. Somebody says, you’re good at something. Oh okay, well, good equals I’m good and then you get the taste of victory, you win something and it’s like okay, well, that feels good and everything in my life shifted very drastically at 14 when I realized that I was that I had some capacity as a runner because I just I dove all in dead serious. All the sort of fun and simple joys of my childhood were gone instantly like and I was just, I had a singular track mind that I was gonna use this as my vehicle into the world and that had its pros and cons. You know, you mentioned a few of the pros like it teaches you a lot and we can talk about that but it also had cons because you know, you rip yourself of or you use or you steal your own childhood from yourself your own teenagehood your own you know the partying and so, I think when I ended up hitchhiking that was me trying to find my way back to just more freedom and fluidity and flow in my life.
John: And these are great nuggets because you know it’s hard to train, drive in you know that willingness to commit that grit, perseverance but if you possess it, it’s not everyone that possesses it right? And then understanding like curiosity, open yourself up to know the abundance of what is out there right? Being creative and you know, you being a creator right? Of content, books, your business, and now trying to instill some of this into your children right? And it’s hard because you don’t even know if you know what you’re doing like I’m a dad myself, and I have no idea if I’m doing it right or wrong but I’m having fun and he’s having fun and we’re laughing together and we cry together, all these emotions are happening because we’re enjoying the process the growing together, and that’s probably more important like being present and not caring about what other people saying like just who cares? Judging you know what other people are trying to instill in you right? Like media plays a huge role, your friends and influencers do but honestly if you’re okay with what’s going on in your bubble then let it be right? Like just enjoy it, be in the moment. So, I would love to now pivot a little bit about like the business end of things so, you know you being that runner you got injured and then you traveled for a bit. What were some of the favorite countries that you traveled to? I would love to pick that out of you and then from there, how did you get that inspiration and an idea to start something?
Joel: You mean to start naked mate?
John: Yes.
Joel: Yeah, I, it’s the three buckets of least so far in my life, there’s three buckets of travel. One was as the you know one was 1920 and that bucket was just uninhibited you’re partying, you’re you’re pursuing sex, you’re, you’re drinking like partying, you’re just and there’s no expectation that comes of it right? It’s just you’re just like it’s one of the ways that I find that I do think that we need to crash against the world a little bit, get in trouble, see what you know see what comes of all of that and so that was like my first, my first foray into the world was through you know, through that that sort of lens of just young, don’t care, partying, having fun and then, but I was like, there’s just so much to share and uncover and this is a pre Instagram where people are people have exposed the world and all its beauty through Instagram. In many ways, in many ways it’s also you know they’ve exposed it for it through a filter of perfection but you know so, it was pre YouTube, it was pre all these things and so I really wanted the first idea was to make a travel film to kind of show the story of the world and so I ended up going from I was in Southeast Asia which inspired me to to do this thing in the film and I end up going from Mexico all the way down to Santiago, Chile, mostly by bus and we filmed the whole thing but it wasn’t good.
It was and so, like not the trip, the filming was and, and I was with my brother and he just he was just so he just thought it was so disingenuous to be trying to film this thing instead of just trying to be in it and be in the moment of it and my brother’s like just pure to the core like that and I was like, no I want I have this like creator in me that wants to take and make content from everything. So, for like 10 years, I did nothing with that footage and we’ll come back to that later. But then then the next bucket was was traveling as a business person and that’s a really interesting way to see, to see and experience the world because you’re doing business with all these different cultures you know whether it’s a factory in Vietnam, a factory in China, factory in Turkey because I make you know I make clothing for a living or for California, or Mexico for that matter and so you get to because business has such a strong cultural component, you’re seeing the world through a totally different lens than if you’re a tourist or you’re just drinking a you know local watering hole in that country and so that was super, super rewarding and then what ended up happening after that event, I started naked. Which again, I just bought a pair of underwear in Peru and I was like, his is better than anything my mom ever bought me growing up and I wanted to iterate and I wanted to take this thing that was super comfortable and marry it back to what I was used to as a runner so that you could have like this performance but you had this soft luxury feel and it was something you could wear all day and you wouldn’t feel it hence the name naked and so we went on Dragon’s Den and it just kind of started happening right? And you’re figuring it out as you go which is such a cool part of your life when you don’t have the weight of the world, you don’t have those, those fears or those biases, or those those those thoughts that inhibit your progress because you’re like, nah I know this isn’t gonna work you don’t have that none of that’s there, you’re just doing it and so that led into the sale and naked and you know after we put it in every department store around the world and and then I wanted to come back to the film but at this point you know when it was sold, but at this point I have kids, and so they’re the change from what I shot with my brother was well, now we need to kinda show what the world is like the traveling with your family and what it might be like for them, how they’re going to see it? And they were young so, you know what might be a lasting effect? What might not they know? Where can you go?
That you wouldn’t normally think like we took our kids to Beirut Lebanon, and as part of the film and so that was that rounded, I don’t know that was a different experience for me entirely and that’s sort of where I am today that inspired cosine travel, which was travel clothing company. It’s been a tough couple of years as you can imagine given the global headwinds as it relates you know for travel very specifically so that, that’s been a we had a great kickstarter, we did you know, million dollars in a kickstarter campaign when we started that company but it’s been an uphill battle ever since for sure.
John: And this is what life is about right? There’s gonna be ebbs and flows, there’s gonna be a lot of highs, down, lows, there’s gonna be challenges and you’re gonna be thrown at with a lot of situations like this pandemic.
Joel: Yeah.
John: It’s how are you going to deal with it right? Like, there’s gonna be things that are thrown at you like marriage, family, elderly, parents, friends and family, you know like relocation of your, you know your situation, things happen it’s how you you as a business owner or a individual make decisions that are the best for your current state and in terms of life this is all perspective right? Like you have to do what’s best for your immediate situation, family, friends, you know financial, whatever situation you’re in and I think you being a business owner able to exit, you have a little more more flexibility with choice and living in Canada we definitely have way more choice and some people in other parts of the world. So, knowing that can you provide some of the lessons or some of the things that you’ve learned? Because you’ve lived, you’ve you know travel with, you got a business, you traveled different styles, right? From economy to business class to different Wall Street to you know, farms, or factories and knowing and seeing third world countries versus first world like that’s what life is about. So, what are some of the things that you can talk about or share with us some some of those precious moments that you kinda you know want to instill with your kids or other listeners I would say? People watching.
Joel: You have to, you have to know the experiences that you want to have and then I think I have worked backwards into those experiences versus saying “This is the job I want, I would say this is the experience I want and what flows into that, and what flows out of that.” right? So for example, you know experience of travel what came of that was a film I didn’t say I wanted to make a travel film first. I wanted to travel and then this idea came out and then the underwear line came out of that and so there’s this, there’s this allowing that I really try and focus on where I’m not obviously like I’m sure many of your listeners like yourself, John believer in attracting what you want into your life and being very intentional about some of the things that you do and I’ve done that and I do that but at the same time I try and, and also just allow life to happen and meet myself where I am as it’s happening, meet, meet the situation for what it is. When I start something new I’m not going to be the expert at it day one right? I have to meet myself where I am at it same as being a runner, same as being an entrepreneur, same as starting a new business from an old business, you know you might have had a successful business and then you start another one and you know things are pretty tough out there and so, you just you can’t you have to meet yourself where you are on these things and allow life to happen.
I didn’t anticipate having a third child that is you know, we were at a place in our life where our kids attendant six were far more independent. I don’t know how old your kids are but they get to this point where it’s like oh, I don’t have to, I don’t have to manage every second of their day anymore right? And but for some reason I’m going back to this other places so I just have to allow it. Cosine has struggled in the pandemic I have to, I have to allow that what is, what is that telling me? What can I learn from it? What should I do with that, and sometimes you got to just fight for it and sometimes you got to take a step back and say “I’m just I’m not gonna be reactionary, to all these different things that are that are happening.” and I mean this is, I’m a highly irresponsible adult, and I’m a highly irresponsible entrepreneur in the sense that I don’t have I played the long game. I know that over time I’m gonna have wins, and I’m gonna have losses, I’ve made millions, and I’ve lost millions and I don’t foresee that ever changing and so I look at it and say “Over the long term I know I’m gonna find my way there but in the short term, I’m gonna, I’m gonna follow my curiosity, it’s gonna, I’m gonna like I’m going to go back to the creek example, I’m gonna explore and do the things that I want to do with my life now.” and sometimes that causes me a lot of pain, financially or it was a it was a bad decision and other times it opens up entirely new doors. So I’m not, I’m not so meticulously working towards some long term goal I’m trying to be you know where I am now and trusting that that end will be you know what it needs to be. You know it’s just I guess, it’s just I’ve found that it works for me some of the time and other times it stresses me the hell out like you know it’s like, why the. When I look at a lot of my friends who have taken more stable paths I look at them like, that was probably what I should have done you know and then other times I’m like no I’m, I love this ride, I wanna take the ride, I wanna be on the ride, wherever that ride goes.
John: No, that’s, that’s amazing, Joel because everyone’s different and you know you being present, you knowing how you want to live and just being free it seems like you’re very spontaneous and you love you know just enjoying the moment and planning might you know if you have a goal, like you being that runner, doing well in your business like these are good goals and there’s gonna be things thrown at you because you’re not an expert and no one ever starts something knowing everything right? You gotta figure it out, just like being a parent, like your 6 year old, 10 year old now, this newborn it’s gonna be different in terms of what they’re gonna be learning, how they absorb because it’s a new environment, new situation, where you’re at in your life and standpoint is different than when you had your 6 year old, 10 year old and that’s what life is all about right? Like acknowledging where you’re at, acknowledging what’s going on in your situation, and don’t compare it to others. It might be good to reflect and talk to people and share ideas but I’m in a really good stage of my life where I feel like there’s less stress than ever. I live in the moment, I don’t worry because honestly, what’s worrying gonna do to me it’s gonna stress me out, it’s gonna have negative impacts on my circle, my team, my company, my everything, and why should I send that vibe over? Like he talks about you know vibrations and it’s not good right? And it’s not healthy so, being controlled what you can and so for me it’s like just living and you talk about this a lot. I love just living, I love traveling, I love exercising, I love being sharing and doing content and creating and just being around people that are like minded.
Joel: When did you have that shift though, John? Because I know for me I you know there was definitely a shift. I imagine for you it was the same, I imagine there was a time when you were hearing singular, focused, and stressed, and worried, and saying this is the box of my life that has everything has to go in it. When did you shift? How did you shift?
John: It was, so for me, I mean my journey a little bit different of course. Grew up as an immigrant you know for children, fourth child left Vietnam War you know, didn’t have much going up all that stuff but going up I love travel like my first foray of travel was out in Europe for a year and then, from there it gave me open up the world because I was in this little community. I came back everyone was still doing same thing and I knew there was way more out there than I knew right? So then I got into business, like just sales, marketing and just career wise but when I got married like started a business, had a family like all these gave me more moments and experiences that I cannot even imagine where I be without them and once I have clarity and yes I’m very goal oriented but it’s not for everyone but if I’ve already situated myself planned ahead so that I have less worries on finances, health, my relationships, then have less stressors if you alleviate all the stressors and you live presently by preparing yourself a little bit, recession proof, pandemic proof, whatever proof, then you’re in control. So, I would say probably 3 years ago I put together a plan, like this whole life plan of mine right? And just stuck with it after a couple months fully present clarity and I’m living happier than ever, present as ever, and enjoying this entire ride.
Joel: How, and how much, and how much control do you feel like you actually have? Because I think that the only I have experienced that the only thing I really have control over is, is my mindset to whatever is happening and that’s what I try and focus on is not any sort of plan that’s going to say this will you know survive contact with the enemy, if you will it will learn it’s all gonna go to and be chaos and the only thing I have control of isn’t is my inner is what’s in between you know my head, my ears and following you know, my heart and trying to find equanimity and being sort of a Jedi Master of acceptance. I just you know, so often I find that when I have expectations about what I want it’s when I’m most stressed, do you find the same?
John: So I think letting go for me, the mind when you have complete clarity of what you want and then things change right? Like,
Joel: Yeah.
John: You know there’s gonna be a lot of pivots, there’s gonna be a lot thrown thrown at you but you still have that intent. Like, I’ve been able to just start this agency, it’s an SEO company.
Joel: Yeah.
John: Not knowing anything about SEO, I just jumped in and I built it, grown it but then having people that I, are along with this ride right? Like I have a full team and they are the greatest representatives of the organization because they fit my values and culture and then it’s that ripple effect right? And it’s being amplified and it’s allowing me to then focus on helping evolve them and giving more, providing more for their situation, life situation when you’re able to have a team that fully supports you then it’s a lot easier than trying to do it yourself and that’s why I’ve kind of built right like company team, my friends, family team, my you know close ties, my colleagues, acquaintances, all that they understand my values and when everyone’s in alignment then it’s a lot easier to go to battle because they have your back.
Joel: Yeah. Who were the inspirations that gave you that mindset that kinda helped you build that blueprint?
John: Oh, man, I think for me like throughout my journey, different stages in life had instrumental people. So, not just one person right? Because going through the whole life right? Like high school, I played five different sports, I had all coaches right? Then in university, I was working at 20 jobs before high school, I had no idea what I want to do right? Ended right? So for me, I was working in university, I went on an exchange program, I was working, I just kept working and getting to know as many people as possible and they gave me little tidbits of guidance, work hard, keep doing what you’re doing, you’re in good track like just stay focused. Don’t get in with the wrong crowd, don’t do stupid things like all these things and then when I was in work mode like 10 years of sales and marketing, managers VP’s really guided me to stay focus right?
Be present, just goal oriented, hit your metrics or whatever. All that really drove me to planning right? And then that allowed me to then plan for my team plan for the future. So, we’re recession proof, we got a 10 year plan but it helps gain clarity for every team member of mine to have certainty for their job situation, having clarity on type of persona clients that we go after, how to go to market, how to mark, it’s just everything if you have this roadmap and then you have it’s pandemic proof, or recession proof then you’re, you’re in good hands right? Like, during this pandemic our revenue was flat, which is a win because everyone else dropped 30% or you know for me, I think that’s a win. So my mindset is, I’m happier than ever because it hasn’t really impacted us. We, the year just started, but we already got a couple of new clients. And I feel like it’s because my clients, my team are understanding what we’re all about right? We support each other, we’re on this clear mission to make an impact in business owners lives right? So, just gaining clarity is so important.
Joel: Yeah, you’ve nailed it? A culture, clarity of vision and hiring the right people that fit those two components of your business, create a compound effect that is without comparison right? You’ll start to see the effects of those two things clicking in your business you know sort of no matter what happens and that’s the hardest recipe to do. It’s so hard for businesses to have clarity , it’s so hard for businesses who are competing for talent on low budgets like if your startup to find the right people who fit your core values and be patient and just so fierce in your hiring process, and the process of getting people off the bus very quickly who just just aren’t a right culture fit for your business. There’s just, there’s no, there’s nothing else that those two things combined culture and clarity of purpose will compound into success if you’re successful with those two things I find.
John: And like you hit it on the nail like finding talent or people right? I’m fortunate to be somewhat like a connector right? Relationships are my go to highest value, ticket item because the people you know throughout that journey of like life right? They either resonate with you or they are not in alignment at all right? So, you’re gonna connect with different people and different value and everyone in between but throughout those years I got to know so many good inspirational people that meant a lot to me and I stay connected, I wanted to help, I listened, I wanted to understand what’s going on.
Joel: Like how do you, what’s your strategy on nurturing relationships that you are not trying to monetize? And they’re not necessarily your friends like you, they’re a business friend, there’s someone you care about, you go for beer with them but you’re, they’re not the people you’re talking every week and they’re not necessarily your 2am you know phone call if you need it like what’s your strategy on that pretty much?
John: They don’t have to be, my strategy has always been constantly give no matter what, so I’ve been a giver of, I’m a big raptors fan so once a year I just give tickets, I give gifts, I go for coffee, I go for lunch, I get to know people and that’s a very time, you know a lot of time is involved but it means a lot because a lot of people don’t even have someone like that, that wants to do that in their circle. So if you stand out and you’re just doing what you love doing like I love just social interacting with people right? I go to the gym and you know I’m talking to 80 year old’s to 40 year old’s and we’re going to have coffee and lunch.
Joel: You’re the guy talking at the gym? You’re that guy?
John: No, but you know what I mean? Like, because I’m curious on life in general, like, what triggers people? Why are they so happy and how are they still fit and active? And What is their circle? Like, what made them become who they are right? Like, because I’m first year you know, I’ve been never a Canadian like my parents are from Vietnam so it’s a different culture upbringing, so I want to engulf in what’s going on here in Canada. So, me being ultra curious like you are, that’s what I do and I enjoy it, I thrive for it, even the neighborhood that I live in. I’m at the park with my son right? And we’re there for a couple of hours. I get to mingle with all the parents and all the other kids right? People think I’m a weird kind of person but I love it, right? And it’s just me right? So you gotta do what you love doing.
Joel: Yeah you’re right on the gifting, it is, I miss that about having an underwear business. It would be, because everybody likes free underwear, but it would be very strange for me to gift underwear now given I don’t have to purpose this anymore to anybody but, it’s really interesting because I have, I am a much, I’m much more of an introvert than meets the eye. If you see me present or whatever you’re gonna think oh that guy is an extrovert, I’m not an extrovert, I am a loner introvert who seeks solitude at every you know every turn, and so I have noticed I’ve had to take the same approach to just allowing my life to happen as best I can, you know to your point with a blueprint, with a plan that you’re allowing against and through, but just seeing where the connections come from and really fostering the ones that you sit down at a lunch and so you just all of a sudden you get this feeling like that’s somebody I want to know.
Might not be somebody you need to know from a business standpoint, from you know I’m going to tap this guy for an investment in a company later or something like that, somebody I want to know and I’ve tried to use that compass the last five years because you know the first five years of you being an entrepreneur, you’re just caching everybody and everybody is, everybody is a step in your ladder, to what you’re trying to accomplish and then, trying to flip that and be like, how can I be a step in this person’s lover for what they’re trying to accomplish one, two is this somebody I actually enjoy their energy, their presence and want to you know have in your life long term even if it’s only once or twice a year you know you connect and you see the person. So that’s been, that’s been an interesting toggle because I’m not a power connector.
John: But you don’t have to be like you have to play with your strengths as an introvert versus you know I feel as yes an extrovert, someone that actually enjoys social interaction but I’m a prober I ask and then they indulge, they want me to listen because everyone loves talking right? So, in sales this is why I harvest, I learn from very good companies out there to then understand like if you understand their pain points and struggles and you give them nuggets and you share with them valuable tips or give them stuff that they actually want and need then, you’re part of the circle. No, but I love, I’ve been a season ticket for like 50.
Joel: Oh man, that’s legendary giving away Raptor’s tickets.
John: Or anything that actually I enjoy being social right? Doing things like I’m now skiing, I’m skating, I’m doing things that I’ve never done before right?
Joel: You’re skiing in Toronto?
John: Yeah, blue mountain you know stuff that I know whistler, you can’t compare right? But I’m taking these sports up because my son, I want him to engulf in this culture that we have for seasons.
Joel: How old is he?
John: He’s six.
Joel: He’s six, okay.
John: Yeah so all these things are like life experiences I’ve never experienced myself and I’m bringing it forward right? Skating, I’ve never skated but I bought skates because he did last year and now we’re skating together right? Stuffs that are fun like rock climbing? We just started picking it up.
Joel: Oh man I’m, that’s the one thing I’m itching for, I feel like as a pastime it’s not only physical but there’s such a strong mental component, there’s a camaraderie component too, so you kind of tick all the boxes of, where, but that mental component because I look for things and say what are the things that I can do that are really going to disconnect me from all the good and that I’m thinking about all day long right? That’s just spinning around in my head and I’ve had a few tastes, I did a bit rock climbing in Argentina not a lot and I was like wow you when you’re when you’re gripped on the side of that freaking mountain. You’re just like that’s all you’re thinking about and I have found like you know like let’s say you go for a hike you know which I do it with my dog and stuff. There’s that period of unwinding before you’re totally out of your head with rock climbing it’s like a soon as you’re in the mountain, you’re out of your head, you’re like you are so present. So have you done just in the gym or have you hit some.
John: I’m just starting, like everything for me is these are all new experiences.
Joel: Yeah
John: Just like nutrition and health like I’m now going hardcore and biohacking I’m trying to learn as much as possible so that I can sign up for the top mudders and spartans in this world like just stuff that are like you’ve been a runner and maybe ultra marathon like these things, bucket list I gotta just do it right? But I gotta mentally prepare and train and then I’m absorbing a lot of content on the best practices and how to you know have a good regimen so that I don’t get injured. So, the big thing as you know age and become more wise is your body’s not the way it used to be when you’re in your teenagers and 20’s, when you could recover very quickly.
Joel: Yeah.
John: So, understand and acknowledge all that, yeah.
Joel: I was injury prone at 20 so, but I’m, what I am gonna be at 30 and 30, I’m 35 now but like 40, 50 I have not. I’m gonna really have to hack the body to, I think about doing the endurance stuff, I think that there’s a lot of there’s a spiritual component to that. There’s a, because it’s one of those things through endurance sports is one of the true moments where it brings you to your body in a very spiritual way that is it can be empowering for people and, but it also could teach them what they’re, what they didn’t know that they could do so I’m a big proponent of our champion of people attempting endurance sports but yeah, for me I have to look at it very carefully because I know that my body based on what I did to it as a, from the time I was 14 to 21 in terms of the training as a runner and just however, I’m built I don’t, I have to be careful how I’d very calculated in that approach.
John: And you also have to look at where you at in your life right? Because there’s a lot of situation that you have to deal with being another you know another kid coming along. Your responsibility right? So, you know what is more important today right? And people have to give up certain things in their lifestyle right? Because it’s what you gotta do right?
Joel: I’m not very good at that John, I’m just, I just layer it on. It’s the leaning, it’s the tower that’s gonna crash, that’s when I learn oh! Everything just fell apart. What mistake did I make?
John: Yeah so tell me, the listeners about this new travel business of yours because we didn’t really talk about it as opposed to this naked business.
Joel: Yeah, I’ve been known as the naked guy for so many years that I, it’s nice to talk about coast and travel but we, have you been to Thailand?
John: Yes!
Joel: You’ve been to Khao San road?
John: Khao San road? Yeah!
Joe: Yeah so that’s where the name comes from, we wanted like we saw this, again pre pandemic like 2018 travel was at a peak, people were changing their lifestyles to be more digitally remotely, there’s no travel brand for millennials. You know you have the older brands, you have the outdoor brands, but you don’t have a millennial focused travel branding that kind of combines the freedom of, the freedom of being in a new country and how you might dress or act and express yourself, mixed with I’m still employed by a company and, yeah I’m still employed by John that SEO search you know, so I gotta, you gotta be in that scene and that zoom you know for zoom calls and different things like that. So we wanted to create like a hub, like Khao San road was that central place where backpackers and travelers come and go from, where you could just buy everything you needed in one click for any trip anywhere in the world and that started with a dress, that was our MVP that you know we took as the sort of the needle that was gonna thread this business, and we, like I said we got started with it and we still have that great dress but we had to on and off pause it throughout the pandemic because the headwinds were just too expensive to fight against, and the same sort of thing happened we finished, we literally got back from Beirut which was the last country we filmed in, the country prior to that had been Vietnam with the kids and they were finishing the film and then the pandemic in and we’re like now we’re gonna, so we haven’t actually launched the film yet. But those are kind of be the ear, the ending marks of what was a very long journey and now as 2022 happens those things will be, well specifically the film will be out and it will kind of be what’s next, where do we go from here?
John: Yeah, but you started it based on a vision on you wanting, because you had some success on your previous company, so you kind of understood apparel, you understood, you, like the marketing aspect, the type of profile that you wanna go after, but of course with this pandemic like travel, hospitality a lot of people are just hesitant to get back out there like it once was right? So did you have to pivot? How did things change? Are you still on course on, like how, what’s going on in your space?
Joel: So we put, we lost like we had a million dollars of angel money that just all evaporated within the span of a week, but it was literally that one flex week in march where 2020 where everything changed. That was a tough pill to swallow, to watch and that was sort of a year’s worth of effort in going down the funnel of raising, of angel forums where you start, angel forums are very competition based, so you start and you go, you kind of like a series of pitch competitions and you get selected and every time you get selected you kind of move on to the better audience or you get to go on the road show or something like that and so we finally we’ve gone through that and we had that we’ve just done like an eight city road show. Seattle, Portland, Bellevue, Vancouver, Kelowna, a few others and we’d raise the money, we’d just and it was all there, we even had signed sub agreements and investors like I’m not sending the cash you know. So that was tough and we sort of paused the business for a while, we let everyone go twice in the last two years, we’ve hired people back and then let them all go, they were covered under wage subsidy so it wasn’t, it wasn’t so painful like you’re sending somebody off to nothing you know they, the Government of Canada unfortunately had things in place for them. We did pivot to ppe for a while but that was an expensive mistake and I, there’s a lesson baked into that as I you know we’ve had sort of in discussions internally do we go down this road or do we would just do nothing, and going down this road was opportunity but it was also, there’s was an opportunity cost and we had the connections but we went into it and the market just got so saturated so quickly that the supply went from nil to more than anyone ever could need very very quickly and so that was, that was the right thing to do likely was to attack that market but it resulted in nothing, it didn’t work you know and so where we are now is we’re considering doing a crowd sourced equity campaign something to restart the engines I think, I think things look good for travel in 20, second half of this year I mean people are already traveling again. What I’m concerned about is I do think there’s a recession following the pandemic that we just, people have been so stressed out about the pandemic in and of itself and you know the way that I think that’s been presented has been very stressful on people and so they haven’t really talked about the recession, they’ve talked about inflation and that’s not an issue, we’re doing, don’t worry it’s not an issue but I think that there’s a, there’s something that’s gonna be painful on the other side of this that we’re going to have to find our way through, but as co-standards as entrepreneurs in general. So, that’s not a very rosy story I shared but it is what it is.
John: It’s what it is right? And as a you know, starting angel investor or anyone that’s starting to run their business early stages, these are the realities of life right? Like you’re in a different industry, you’re in an industry that has been hit pretty hard and if you want to pursue this industry, you either have to live with what the situation is today and it’s hard to forecast and project and predict what’s going to happen unless you want to change industries altogether, even with those industries it’s not as stable as everyone thinks right?
Joel: I don’t think anything at this moment in time or I don’t think most things are as stable as we think. That doesn’t mean that people won’t find a way through, I think a lot of digital is fine, you know what you do people are always gonna need that, you know how, what does that iterate into when you talk about metaverse, when you talk about blockchain, when you talk about you know voice search versus typing it into google yourself, like there’s iterations but as a whole people are always gonna need the service that you, that you provide and so I think that and things like that. There’s always going to be there and watching the pivots that they maybe you can expect maybe you can’t expect Facebook became 10x more expensive to do business with in the fall of this year than it was any point of the history of any of my companies you know series of events led to them all the stuff around, privacy and so on and so forth. So those things are tough to forecast for you know the supply chain issues, the power quotas, the power quotas out of Asia, wreaked havoc on us and even if we make locally here in Vancouver which we have and can do. They’re still where’s your fabric coming from and so there’s all of these things that are that is really hard to predict what’s gonna have the chain reaction to something else or at least you know I’m just, I’m just not smart enough but you know so it was kinda like there’s so many factors and I think that any entrepreneur starting up today has to really holistically look at holy look at all these things that just happened from the pandemic it wasn’t just the people traveling less it was so many things what possibly could be the next group of things and really think hard as to whether or not. You want to retrench the trench a little bit save up more money maybe or just wait and see because everything shifts you know with a news announcement. Everything shifts you know we, I was talking to investors in fall and they thought the pandemic was over.
John: Yeah, yeah and things are out of your control right? And timing is a lot to do with life as well like as an entrepreneur. You’re you know you want to get things done quicker, faster more efficiently you know and scale as quick as possible growth, TEDX or whatever but the challenge is reality is gonna hit, there’s gonna be stuff in your way, it’s how do you make decisions that are best for yourself, your family, your investors, your clients, your staff and you gotta live with your decisions right?
Joel: And not chase and not chase shiny objects. I really, I really warned like today’s an exciting world we have a new layer of economic opportunity through NFT’s and bitcoin and blockchain and metaverse that are all people hear about and I just say to someone yes, but that doesn’t mean that you’re lame, that you’re going to be successful in, and it’s like you know I consult for all these companies and they’re like how do we bring the NFTs into our business? Or how do we you know how do we offer a coin? And I’m like woah, like get profitable and then maybe you know once the foundation is solid to your point there’s just this ecosystem that’s working then maybe look at something and see if it’s if it’s a logical fit but not a stretch fit you know that’s a bubble on a bubble that will be here forever but there will also be so much collateral damage that falls out of these things and you don’t wanna be the one just jumping on the bandwagon without really understanding it. You know I don’t, I read about it every day I don’t really understand it like in the way that some people might you know and that’s why I have to be careful what I dip my toes into and where I can really be effective in bringing value to situation and bringing you know compound return on my investment both my time investment as well as my cash investment.
John: And that’s risk right? And as a business owner, entrepreneur you have to realize why you’re doing what you’re doing and at what time and the profile of it all like what’s the worst thing that can happen if it if you’re okay to lose it then it’s okay right? To risk certain percentages but until your core foundation is in place and you have stable you know revenue you have projections of you know whatever it is then it’s okay to try different things but right now it’s probably not a good time based on what’s going on economically, things without you within your control or not like you know how guidelines and restrictions and all these supply chain issues and you know all the costs going up and everything right? Inflation going up like you mentioned, recession, things that are more global in scope is gonna happen. So, this has been Joel, I mean I know we kinda went off topic a couple times but this is great. I love our conversation, we’re definitely gonna connect off topic but what’s the best way listeners can get in touch with you, reach out to you if they have any questions get to know a little bit more about you?
Joel: The best place is joelprimus.com
John: Okay
Joel: I just, I try and funnel everything through there that’s j-o-e-l-p-r-i-m-u-s.com and that’s where my blog is and that’s where you can reach out to me and I’m always, I’m always curious you know as an investor, as an entrepreneur I’m always interested in learning you know what people are working on and whether there’s something there so yeah, please please do reach out and then that’s where you’ll be able to find any updates on things that I’m working on and you know which tends to be more creative projects this days than anything else but.
John: Oh, it’s a great journey that you’re on, I’m definitely gonna reach out to you and stay connected. This has been a lot of fun, getting to know you, really learning about your journey and history. Best of luck on cosine travel I know that’s you know challenging at state of what’s going on in the world but I know you gonna inspire a lot of people, they’re gonna you know dig what you have put out because this documentary video that you’re create it’s gonna be a lot of fun like I’m gonna definitely watch it when it comes out, let me know when that comes out.
Joel: I will, John.
John: And it’s been great getting to know you, Joel. Thank you so much.
Joel: Thanks for having me, John really appreciate it. Thanks for everyone for listening.
