“People want a business with more principles, with more purpose, and more courageous and disciplined leadership.”
Coming from a family of small business owners, Paul Spiers is now the founder of The New P&L Brand Purposes Institute and host of the internationally renowned business podcast, The New P&L–Principles & Leadership in Business. He has helped thousands of business leaders and entrepreneurs rediscover and re-engage their purpose and utilize it to build and achieve their goals.
“I think success for an entrepreneur is about recognizing that it’s your journey to become a fully rounded individual and that you’ve acquired knowledge, relationship, and humility. Success is about learning–it’s about being humble, knowing your own limits, but also recognizing what you have achieved over that point in time.”
Join Paul Spiers as he shares his business success story and how he has inspired thousands of businesspeople to drive their organization’s commercial, strategic and operational arteries.
Website: https://www.principlesandleadership.com/
Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/paulspiers
John: Thank you for listening to the Business Sphere. Don’t forget to share this episode and subscribe. Joining me today is founder of P&L brand purpose Institute Paul Spires. He focuses on helping leaders rediscover and re-engage their purpose. Thanks for joining me today, Paul.
Paul: It’s my pleasure, John, thank you for the invite.
John: So I’m excited you being all the way from the UK. I’d love to for all the listeners that don’t know who you are, if you don’t mind sharing with them. How you became that thought leader of p&l? And what does that really mean and your journey along the way?
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I’m from originally from Altona, New Zealand, grew up in a small town and in the North Island, and I moved to the UK just over two decades ago. And I’ve spent most of my professional career in the creative industries of some level, the professional musician for many years, worked in PR, marketing, brand, and reputation management and so on. And most of that time, I’ve been an entrepreneur of some description, the founding my own agencies, running my own businesses and so on. The idea for the new p&l, principles and leadership, rather than the old p&l Profit and Loss came from a, an experience I had in my own business of round, sort of five or six years ago, we were subjected, at the time to a series of very unethical actions, took the business to its knees, it took me to my knees personally. And I thought at the time, being a creative at heart, that there’s got to be a better way of doing business than that which we had been subjected to at that time. And the idea for a new p&l based on principles and leadership, not just Profit and Loss, came to me.
And I guess the idea stuck around for about five years. In my mind, I’m a, I’m a firm believer that just because an idea is not right for right now, doesn’t mean it’s not right forever. And I knew there was something in the new p&l as a concept, but I couldn’t quite work out what it was. And then about two years ago, just over two years ago, the idea of a podcast, and the new p&l sort of merged together in my mind, I thought I dipped my toe in the water initially, just to see whether the concept of a new p&l based on principles and leadership resonated. We grew as a podcast quite exponentially over the last two years, both in terms of episodes, I think we’re 180 now but listened to in over 80 countries. 1000s of entrepreneurs and business leaders and employees listen to us each month.
So there’s clearly a desire and a resonance with a new p&l. People want a business with more principles with more purpose with more courageous and disciplined leadership. So 12 months ago, I launched the new p&l brand purpose Institute. And that is the consultancy side if you like where we work with business leaders to, as you alluded to, to redesign and redefine the principles and the purpose that underpin that business, and then realign it with the commercial ambitions of their business. Because I think too much, far too many programs and consultancies and training, they look to focus on purpose over here, but they ignore the commercial ambitions of their business over there. And if you don’t align those two, then there’s not a lot of hope for that proposition over time, because the business has to be profitable, has to make money has to move forward has to grow. But their purpose and their commercial ambition should be in alignment.
John: That’s amazing. And I want to thank you for sharing that journey of yours. But before I ask you more about your business, you don’t mind taking me back to you know, back before you started this business, many businesses of yours being a creator, musician, entrepreneur, did you study Business Marketing, Finance, like what was your journey like back in New Zealand before you came to UK?
Paul: Yeah, I never studied entrepreneurship or anything. I left school at sort of 16 years old and went and worked in a photographic studio when I started. But I’ve always just had that desire to understand and explore creativity and what makes us think from a creative perspective, the role curiosity and, and purpose play, in entrepreneurship and then creativity more generally, but I can also tell you a very personal story. I can also trace what I’m doing now right back to when I was seven years old. My, we didn’t have any really any books in the house. But my parents had won an encyclopedia in a raffle when I was seven. And my mum will always say that I just devoured that book cover to cover. And a really set my passion for knowledge acquisition and discovery and curiosity. And I’m in the UK now I’m doing a podcast now. I’m running an institute. And I can draw a direct line from that seven-year-old boy barefoot boy reading that encyclopedia to where I am now it is a complete linear journey of wanting to discover and uncover and, and source information and be an information sponge and, and want to learn more and more and more all the time. So it’s, you know, really, I can trace my, my whole journey back to that seven-year-old boy in the winning of that encyclopedia.
John: That’s amazing. And then how did you become so curious to then start all these different agencies and entrepreneurial journeys of yours? Was it because you worked at another company and found that they weren’t fulfilling they weren’t, you know, aligned with your principles? What drove you to pivot to explore that entrepreneurial spirit of yours?
Paul: I’ve had some wonderful jobs. And I’ve worked with some wonderful people over the years, I guess. And this doesn’t mean to, you know, meant to sound sort of grander than it is, but I’ve just always felt that I have to do this myself, you know, that I have to explore myself, I have to set up businesses myself, I have to see and test myself in terms of my capabilities, what I can deliver what I can’t, I’ve failed plenty of times, I’ve won a few times succeeded a few times. But there is just something in me. I come from a family of small business owners, so entrepreneurs, if that’s what you want to call them. You know, my, father and uncles were all tradesmen, and they all ran their own businesses. But I think it’s just a desire to, to continually test my own abilities and try myself and see what I’m capable of. And it just never seem to fit quite enough working for someone, I always felt that I could do more on my own, they weren’t doing anything wrong, I just thought I could do something different.
John: And that’s great to hear. Because knowing a little bit more about you now, it might have already been inside you right? exposed to all these family members and peers and siblings or whatnot, going off on their own, testing the waters being more open to trying the hardest thing in the world to do, which is sacrifice a nine to five job stable income pay to not know when the next paycheck is going to be. How do you cultivate new clients? How do you serve as clients better? Listening to them asking questions, probing figuring out like, what really matters to customers? How do you do value ads? How do you service and well, so along those years of success or not success? What did you learn? And if you don’t mind sharing with listeners, like you being more mature than maybe some of the listeners are thinking of starting a business? What could you advise them?
Paul: You never know enough? is probably the thing. I think the minute you think you you know what you’re doing in business as the time you need to take a step back and think I’m missing something because I think, you know, I’m,in my 50s. Now, my early 50s. I think I’m only just despite all of those years of entrepreneurship, I’m only just doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing in my professional career. And that has taken me nearly 30 years of setting up marketing agencies, I had a surfwear clothing brand for some time, I ran a sort of design engineering company as well. But I’ve only just found what I’m supposed to be doing it. And I described it to someone the other day, as I feel for many, many years, I’ve been standing in the right field, but looking the wrong way. And then with the launch of the new p&l, it almost felt like I turned around and realized that actually I was supposed to be running for that trial line or that goal-line, not the other one I was facing towards.
So I think entrepreneurship is about a constant learning. And there are many, many failures and entrepreneurship small and big, that you have to take your learnings from each one you have to continually recognize be humbled that you’ve got a lot more to learn. And that, frankly, if you’re not dead, it’s not over. You know, you’ve got to keep going and going and going and going. And as I say it’s taken me 30 years of entrepreneurship to find what I’m truly supposed to be doing. But I believe this is my calling. But it didn’t come overnight. I wasn’t a 25-year-old tech entrepreneur that founded immediately. It’s taken me 30 years of my career to discover it, but you’ve just got to keep believing that tomorrow will be better than today. I think.,
John: And it’s great that you’re mentioning this because 30 years overnight success, just like all those millionaire billionaire successful businesses and brands out there, it didn’t happen overnight. The idea happen, and they probably changed the idea many times pivoted from different brands, service clients personas, different ways to market themselves. But like I said, it takes time to figure things out for yourself, but also recognize what makes you purposeful and happy. Right? And, and throughout those years, like starting these different agencies and companies, if you don’t mind sharing, like, what did you recognize that success or failure because if it doesn’t break you, I think it is success because you’re learning no matter what.
Paul: Absolutely, I think I’m not suggesting this is across the board. But this is my own journey. I think when you’re a young entrepreneur, you generally only perceive or largely perceive success in terms of money. Because you look up, you know, your aspirational mentors are those who have succeeded in some shape or form. And that success is represented in money of some shape or form. As you get older, as an entrepreneur, you realize that actually, of course, you need money, you need money to pay your rent, or your mortgage, or whatever it happens to be. But that’s only part of the picture, success starts to materialize, itself. And the way you feel about yourself the way the knowledge you acquire the relationships, that you start to develop the perspective that you have on life, both business and personal. I think success ultimately, for an entrepreneur is about recognizing that it’s your journey to become a fully a full person, a fully rounded individual, and that you’ve acquired knowledge, you’ve acquired relationships, you’ve acquired humility, you may have acquired a bit of money along the way, as well. But you’ve learned through all of that process. So success is about learning. It’s about being humble.
It’s about knowing your own limitations, but also recognizing what you have achieved over that point in time. So it’s the balance between certainly being humble, but also being appreciative of your success. My mum used to say something to me, which I’ve always carried with me, and it was, be happy, but never be satisfied. So always be happy where you are in your entrepreneurial journey. Be proud of your successes to date, and learn from your failures. But never be satisfied. Because that lack of satisfaction will drive you on to succeed and achieve the next thing but But you shouldn’t always look for tomorrow or next week or next year to I’ll be happy when they’ve kind of you know that that philosophy, you must be happy in that moment and am pleased about where you are in that moment, but, but their lack of satisfaction was driving you to achieve more.
John: That’s amazing. I mean, these are great wise words from an entrepreneur with multiple businesses. So I love you sharing that because living presently, for the moment, and yes, you got to, you have aspirations, you have goals, you have, you know, very great strong vision. But if you don’t appreciate what you have, be grateful for what you have, surround yourself with people that support you, but also challenge you, people that are ahead of you, but also behind you really look at where you’re at and be ultra grateful for the opportunity that living in UK, I live in Canada living in where you’re at, with the people that you have to support you, makes you want to drive for more, make a larger impact, you know, support more people if it’s your team members, or your clients or whatever it may be. share successes. So it’s great words of wisdom for sure. Thank you. So now let’s move along with your business. So it’s all about culture management. So how, what how do you really foster a good culture in your definition and based on your principles?
Paul: A good culture starts with a good leader. I think you know everything in business. As much as we want to create a good culture right throughout the business it can’t foster itself without strong and positive leadership. So we have a man what we call the mantra principle in the new p&l brand purpose Institute, and it is our methodology if you like, and mantra is a six-step or six-component process for a more purpose-led and principal business and the aim. And that acronym of mantra stands for moral leadership, because everything has to start with leadership, and how they turn up how they develop their relationship with one another, how they recognize the relative balance of power they have in relation to employees. how they set the tone for the conversations, having dialogues, not monologues and all of these other things, the work they do on themselves to excuse me, to be self-aware, I think you have to create self-awareness within yourself. And that’s probably the biggest challenge in leadership, I think because we all think we are self-aware.
And everyone talks about being vulnerable and being self-aware and everything else. There wouldn’t be anyone who thinks they’re not self-aware. But that’s part of the paradox and the delusion of self-awareness. I think there was a study, I read recently that a group of psychologists had gone out to 1000s, low 1000s, I think three or 4000, CEOs, and they’d set this criteria, psychological criteria for what self-awareness looks like in leadership. And the overwhelming majority of leaders that they spoke to believe they were self-aware. But I think it was between 20 and 25% actually fitted the characteristics of self-aware leadership. So we can’t be self-aware by talking to ourselves into the mirror, we have to work with a mentor work with a coach, as you said, alluded to earlier, get someone to test our assumptions and question our, our propositions and our beliefs and opinions and so on. We’ve got to build much greater self-awareness, as a leader before we can create a culture that embeds purpose and bids creativity and, and embeds empathy, and all of those other great things that we need in business.
John: That’s a great answer. I mean, culture is so vital to sustain your business, right. And if you don’t set it a precedent, being the good, true leader, you’re gonna have people leave you, morale is gonna be low, you know, respect, there’s gonna be disappointed clients, like there’s so many disconnects, and alignment is key, understanding different perspectives is important. And just showing up trying different things, being happy with progress, even though everything’s gonna take a lot longer than you anticipate. You got to budget during that time and be okay with it, right? Because everyone wants fast, quick, low, low cost, and rapid growth. But in reality, everything’s gonna take much longer costs way more, and, you know, it’s gonna be super stressful. So it’s how do you, you know, be ready for all those, so that you can continue growing your own business?
Paul: Absolutely. And I think, you know, there’s a, we talk about vinyl values in the new p&l brand purpose Institute. And what I mean by that is, and it kind of gives a nod to your point that everyone wants everything done quickly and cheaply. There are leaders who believe that the depth of their value proposition or their purpose is when you come up with a slogan or a series of principles, and you print them on vinyl, and you put them behind your reception or in your boardroom. And it’s supposed to stable the businesses and the values that underpin it, what are usually ends up being as a substitute for rather than a demonstration of you know, they just become vinyl values and commitment to them is about as thick as the vinyl they’re printed on. So those values have to come off their wall, and they have to be led by leaders, they have to be embedded into every aspect of that culture, you have to think about whatever that value is, how does it demonstrate in the way you speak to people? How does it demonstrate in the way, you deal with your clients? How’s it demonstrated in the way you develop your products? Or everything, everything within a business has to focus on values, and how you embed them in your business?
John: Yeah, that’s amazing. I mean, showing up and understanding how everything starts with a leader, and then it’s embedded in just living like you’re actually doing things, right. As opposed to just putting it on your slogan or business card or, you know, it could be on the back of your wall, right, it doesn’t really mean much. So showing up I think and living through some of those core cultural values is very important. Another question I have is how do you discover and redefine your purpose?
Paul: I think it’s a My purpose is an organic thing, like every purpose should be what I believed I shouldn’t be doing in business 10, 20 years ago has clearly changed because my businesses have changed for one. But my core purpose with the new p&l Institute, is I want to create, however ambitious and might be and probably however deluded, it probably looks at the moment. I want to create a global movement for more principled leaders and more purpose-led business that is my sole and firm and clear purpose with the new p&l brand purpose Institute. It’s more than just a desire to build a business. Of course, that’s the outcome of what I’m trying to achieve. But actually, what I’m trying to do is, in my own way, is to change the way we look at leadership, to change the way leaders consider the way they leave businesses, and to consider the purpose that underpins it.
John: And it’s great for you to have this purpose, but it took you so long decades to discover it. And it’s only at this point, pivotal time in your lifespan, that you’re able to go after your true ambitions, which meant, there were years of struggle, there were years of figuring out like, what am I doing, trying to figure out, you know, is this my business to be sold, kept going, you know, regret, there’s so much going on, in every entrepreneurs mind business owner, and you have to figure out what’s best for you at that given time. And to discover your own purpose means you still got to reengineer your mindset and figure things out. And always try to readjust right? Pivot or, you know, make failures and whatever it may be because life is gonna throw a lot of things at you. That’d be, you know, moving to a new country, this pandemic, war, there’s so much going on. And you have to figure out what’s best for your life at that given time and moment.
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s why you have to define, you know, really define your purpose, because when you, you give examples of the pandemic, and so on, and all these other things that life throws at you. If you don’t have a defined purpose, and you don’t really believe in that purpose, then you’re rudderless. You become rudderless very, very quickly, you lose your, your direction and your vision, because actually, as I said earlier, that purpose that you had in their business was the veneer of a purpose rather than a real defined when they, you the passionately believed in.
John: Yeah the ethos is so important. And if your core is stuck with it, you breathe it live it every single day, then that’s what you know, should be guiding every action that you’re taking moving forward. So what’s the biggest barrier to understand, your purpose?
Paul: I think probably, in some respects, getting out of your own way. And actually, you know, working with someone to understand where your real purpose is in life, because we may have an ambition, and it may be incomplete lack of alignment with where we are in our jobs at the moment. But we’ve got to sit down with someone and understand what we’re really trying to achieve at an individual level, what we’re really trying to achieve at a professional or a business level. So I think some people, you know, I’ve one of my son, one of my children, he knows what he wants to be in life. He’s 16. And he’s known when he wants to be since he was nine, lots of us can’t quite figure that out. And it’s taken me as I said, a long, long time to work that out. So it’s about getting back to working with someone, mentor, coach, again, to getting back to understand what you’re passionate about what you read, what really drives you what change you want to make in the world, and how that might turn up how that might look. in a professional sense. Not everyone has to be trying to create a new p&l, it doesn’t matter what your purpose is, as long as it sits in, it resonates with you as an individual.
John: That way I love that, you know, not just your son, you help guide you try to let them figure it out. Right, let them be curious. But most importantly, having someone a different perspective, having someone that you can trust to guide you give you inspiration and give you some different perspectives, wisdom because not a lot of people have that. And if you want to be a nurse, and you want to help save a lot of lives, that is your, you know, goal, right like that is and that’s totally fine. If you want it to ever start a business, what is the root of why you’re starting a business who, like there has to be a deeper level than just, I want to earn money, or I want to service more clients. I mean, why do you want to service more clients? Who are the clients that you’re serving? And what’s the actual impact that it’s going to make to these clients? Like? These are the questions I’ve learned over the past nine years writing my own agency, having surrounding myself with great managers and leaders and being able to speak to so many different business owners, allowing me to really refine and define how I run my agency today, then five years ago, absolutely. And so I’m always learning and I know I’m never gonna just be okay with what the status quo is. I’m constantly trying to add more value or provide more, you know, to my clients and listing more, give more help more my staff, like there’s always this ongoing battle of trying to do more. And that’s what drives me, as my agency continues to grow, right?
Paul: Absolutely. And I think, you know, we most businesses, to go back to your point, most businesses start with a purpose of some description to create a new problem product to solve a problem to change their own little part of the world, whatever it happens to be. Not many businesses start as a result of someone waking up on Saturday morning, and think I’ve got nothing better to do or start a business, you know, we, we start with a real reason. But then what often find in the work of the institute that over time, their business drifts from its purpose. And you can tell that a business is drifting from its purpose, because the sole focus to go back to the new p&l, the sole focus ends up being that bottom right-hand corner of the spreadsheet, you know, we were going to grow five 5%, next year, 7%, next year, 10% next year. And that’s important. But that shouldn’t, that should be the outcome, that shouldn’t be the purpose, the purpose is to still serve your customers better to change the world in large or small ways to create products that solve problems, whatever that purpose happens to be, the result of you fulfilling your purpose should be a growth in the bottom right-hand side of that Excel sheet or spreadsheet, it shouldn’t be the primary focus.
John: But because of the culture, because of the world, we’re growing, living in the growth, the ease of information and navigation and what people are exposed to, in terms of media, they’re thought to believe that if you’re not growing at a multiple of, and you’re not one of those tech companies that are expanding really rapidly joining getting some VC funding or angel investing, then you’re not a part of them. And that’s a different culture. But that’s pros and cons to everything, right? And there’s people that are living yet and are successful in to the extent but are they really happy? What percentage of the people are actually that successful, out of hundreds of people that are running that same kind of industry, business niche market, how many of those hundreds are really the top 1%? Right, or 20% of the market share? So realistically, it’s just like you said, you got to put in time, you got to figure things out, you got to keep working at it. And only a small percentage will actually be successful. Not everyone will be but be okay with it, constantly grow, constantly learn constantly evolve, right?
Paul: And I think you know, you’re spot on, there is a, there’s a huge industry out there around the times five or the times 10, you know, grow by five times or grow by 10 times or whatever. But my question would be, if you starting to buy into that, as a young entrepreneur, or an old entrepreneur, I mean, I make a lot of entrepreneurs now that are 50. Plus, they’re entrepreneurs for the first time in their lives. And that’s a whole nother conversation, I think, which is, which is brilliant. But if you’re buying into that, the first question I will be asking you is why are you buying into that? Why? Why do you want to be five times the size of you are now 10 times the size? Do you understand the effort it’s going to take to get there because it’s never as glamorous as the Instagram real, you know, certainly, it’s not five steps to 10 times. So what are you? Why are you trying to get there? If it’s just money, then I think if it’s just money, and I think you need to reevaluate what the principles are, that are underpinning your entrepreneurial purpose at the moment because you can grow every business should grow. That’s the nature of business.
But it’s got to have the right underpinnings. It’s a difference between sustainable growth and unsustainable growth. And I talk in one of my one of the workshops I deliver about the difference between a one-dimensional legend and a purposeful legacy, and what you’re trying to create and both and a one-dimensional legend starts. And it’s all about look at us. So we were one store, look at what we’ve done when our global empire. And it’s usually shaped around one or two people or a small group of people with a supporting cast of 1000s. But there’s no substance to it because all they’re focused on is growth for growth’s sake. And what we’ve seen over the last two years, is 1000s Millions of employees around the world are waking up to the fact that actually, the business they’re working for is a one-dimensional legend. They’re just trying to build someone else’s legend and there’s no there’s nothing in it for them. There’s no purpose, there’s no vision, that I feel part of that community.
If you build a purposeful legacy, you can still go from one store to global empire, but the nuances where you can Place the achievement in the effort, you achieve that through serving customers not taking from you achieve it through creating a community that believes in your, in your purpose and is trying to create a legacy for their business. So they will leave it in a better place than then they found it. You’re trying to create a community of people who believe in a common volume of vision and a common set of principles and values. And that’s more sustainable growth. You know, and there are great examples out there, like Patagonia as a good example, Rei that continue to grow Northface continue to grow, continue to do the right things, for the right reasons. No one’s perfect, people get things wrong. And then one of the presentations I Give I say it’s not the shade of perfection we’re looking for, but the intensity of the intention, you know, so we’re, we’re looking for businesses who are moving in the right direction, for the right reasons with the purpose underpinning them.
John: And I know you mentioned some large brands there, and it all starts with that idea and vision right ? and it all starts with the leaders, and knowledge that they don’t know all the answers, absolutely, being vulnerable being okay with making mistakes. and then having a supporting cast that is in alignment with being okay right? Perfection is never realistic right? like what does perfect mean to a lot of people? does it mean growing at x amount, but sales doesn’t really mean profitability either right? that’s right and it doesn’t mean loyal customers you can get gain a lot more new customers and not be profitable and not servicing the type of clients that you really want to work with. So understanding what is it for the larger picture growing sustainably. So I love this discussion because it seems like you’ve figured it out after you know many years and decades of running your own business. if you don’t mind sharing like, were there some of the things in your previous companies that really triggered you to want to rediscover why you were doing certain things, and what made you motivate yourself to either change, leave, sell I’m not sure what happened during some of these companies, but if you don’t mind sharing that would be great.
Paul: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean one example I can give is a business that failed and I still love it, I still believe in it, it’s still part of me emotionally but it didn’t work and that was a when I turned 40, I launched a surf wear clothing brand, you know some people buy fast cars when they have the midlife crisis, I launched a surf wear clothing brand. and you know I’d surfed as a kid I’d surfed for many years, I loved it as a sport but I hadn’t been on the board for probably at that point about seven or eight years because I’d come to the UK, I hadn’t got to the beach a lot but I still had this passion for surfing, so I created a New Zealand influence New Zealand designed surf wear clothing brand but I quickly discovered, I discovered a lot of things through that experience. But I mainly discovered that I didn’t, although I loved surfing, I wasn’t in the surfing world anymore so I didn’t understand the nuance of it, so I was creating this brand for my ego not for a reason, not for a purpose, I was creating it because I guess I wanted to rediscover something and feel a little bit cool again and create something that’s great, and you know be kind of in the middle of such a great industry. But it was starting for the wrong reasons, because I was starting at about me not about what I could deliver, not what I could serve, not what I could offer.
So that business failed it took a little while three or four years, but it eventually just died out really more than anything. I committed less and less time to it I had a couple of other businesses at the time as well, but it was mainly for the reason that it wasn’t closely enough aligned with me at that point in my life. Now if I’d launched that when I was 20 it would be a very different experience because I was in the industry and I would have been launching it, because I was trying to solve a problem I would have identified something in the nature of what we were doing in that community that wasn’t working, and I would have developed a different product produced it for a different reason, and recognized where the opportunity was because I was embedded in that community. So that was a really, really salient lesson for me that actually despite experience and marketing. If you really don’t understand the industry and you really don’t understand the product, and you started that business for the wrong reason or without genuine purpose that binds and aligns with you internally for the right reasons, it’s a hell of a lot harder to get that product off the ground.
John: That’s a great example, because as you mature in every business, or in life in general. If you were 20 you wouldn’t have real-life experience as marketing, branding and business ownership as well and acknowledging personas, and understanding like value ad service and asking the right probing questions. But in hindsight learning that you were not in it, you were not understanding customers the users and putting yourselves in their shoes on what they want today trends what, you know color shades brand whatever it is, because that’s what’s going on today and perception of how they purchase things today is different than traditional ways seven, ten, eight years ago right? absolutely, because behaviors change, dynamics change, trends change especially if you’re launching a product right? like a brand recognition there’s so much at play and how do you market? how do you go to market? how do you perceive yourself what’s the value add? what’s the price cause the benefits right? like there’s so much to consider, but running a business is challenging it’s the hardest thing to do but it’s most rewarding thing to do as well.
Paul: Yeah, and you know you raise a really, really great point because I created a surf brand, for the 20-year-old me when I was 40. but the industry had moved on 20 years between me being 20 and 40. And I still remember you know because I think back and analyze this all the time, there’s someone I was working with at the time and she said, you should change the brand in these ways, and she gave me a little document and I thought at the time because I was a bit buried in the emotion of that brand, that’s not the way the brand needs to go that’s not what this brand looks like, that’s not what this brand represents. So I didn’t go that way, that was a really silly decision on my part and when I look back because now I am in the industry although I’m much older now, I surf all of the time I’m part of the community I’m out there doing it. I look back and think she was absolutely spot on but I couldn’t see it, because I had created a brand for a moment in time that didn’t exist anymore.
John: And that’s great to acknowledge that in hindsight, but living today it’s about perspective right ? and putting yourself into the user’s mind, and now that you’re back in it you can acknowledge the different steps that you could have taken, and if things if you go back in that industry and you want to build something, I’m sure it will be much more successful because you know what problems you could have solved right? what kind of you know people, why people are buying things today because thinking 20 years ago, like 20 years is historic times in today’s day and age because technology has changed such a rapid speed, and even with this pandemic, in the world I mean information age is real-time. And therefore you have to be nimble and fast to adapt and pivot, and change, because if you’re one month behind that could be you know profit to loss right? like there could be a lot of implications of staffing issues to supply chain right now, there’s so many different variables to really consider.
Paul: Yeah, no i mean it’s you know, but as I said earlier everything is about learning and moving forward, and taking you know taking the time to, I think this is probably a really important point, particularly for young. Entrepreneurs is do take the time to analyze, what went wrong but don’t give yourself too hard a time in the process of that, so you know recognize that failure is part of success, it is part of growing a business, you cannot succeed without failure that is I mean. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t failed on their way to success in some shape or form, you have to change that, you know where the direction is you might have to change the road to get there, you know you’re going north or west, or wherever but it doesn’t mean you always stay on that same road, but you must be accepting of failure recognize where you went, wrong but don’t beat yourself up in that process, because beating yourself up doesn’t allow yourself to grow, and to be the positive entrepreneur that you need to be to then learn from that mistake and move it forward.
John: Yeah, and these are great words of wisdom Paul, and someone in their 20s, 30s starting a business, is maybe just starting to learn how to run a business, versus someone that has a little bit more work experience, life experience, different stages of seeing what’s going on in their 40s, 50s, 60s that have better time, guidance, wisdom life experience to gain wisdom right? like to really gauge to see perspectives of you know, why things have been going well or not well, and surrounding yourself with also like-minded people right, because when you’re in your 20s and 30s i mean maybe you’re surrounding yourself with startup, vpc kind of you know dreamers right? where they’re not realistic, but then as you mature you kind of realize who are the people that have actually done well for themselves in your eyes right? because success means different things for a lot of different people right. So understanding it’s not just money, it’s about balance, it’s lifestyle, it’s about you know that freedom of choice right ? and that’s what entrepreneurship is all about, you’re able to dictate how you want to run your business and call the shots, but you also have to realize that it’s not for everyone because it’s a lot of stress, a lot of challenges, a lot of growing, a lot of failure, a lot of mistakes that go on you know, throughout these years and enjoy the process have fun, absolutely, embrace it all right?
Paul: And do you know do also, do surround yourself with great people, but also surround yourself with intelligent people, who are going to make you uncomfortable with their questioning, because if you’re uncomfortable with their line of questioning regarding your business, and they’re asking questions and they’re probing, that means somehow your business is changing and growing, and you are changing and growing, if you surround yourself with sycophants who always tell you that, this is a great business, and you know you’re going to be a success, and you know I can’t believe you wouldn’t fail. That’s not real life, so if you’re uncomfortable with the questions people are asking you, that is a really good place to be because it means you’ve got to work hard, to come up with the answers to address it and most of the questions if you’re asked, have been asked from the right people, intelligent people who have a genuine interest and see helping you see better, and do better then those questions will help you grow. We can’t expand and grow and be successful in entrepreneurship without feeling uncomfortable in that process, so you’ve got as you said you’ve got to find a way to enjoy being uncomfortable, see it as the opportunity for that business to expand and grow.
John: And with all this new technology going on, communities are at your disposal there’s a lot of different groups out there, digitally as well as in-person right? go to live events, get to network a little bit, get a little bit uncomfortable by sharing your stories right, get out there because if you’re not and you’re kind of self-isolating your entrepreneur that thinks you know everything, well you don’t and you have to get out there and expose yourself and talk to more people because there’s so much to learn, you can pick up a book, you can go read, watch some videos on youtube you join some communities out there, but get out there and keep absorbing content, because this is a never-ending journey right ? of course it’s ownership, I’m always learning, I’m constantly challenging myself, my team challenges me, it’s a lot of fun though so you got to make sure that you have fun, doing what you love, and have fun with that purpose.
Paul: Absolutely.
John: So final words Paul, a couple questions how can some of the listeners who don’t know who you are? like check you, outreach out to you, check your institute out if you don’t mind sharing?
Paul: Yeah absolutely, so the best place to start would be to go to principals and leadership.com, you’ll find the podcast and the institute on there, or you can email me at [email protected] very happy to have a conversation with you, the podcast is on all as with yours, on all of the major Spotify channels, or sorry all of the major podcast channels Spotify, iTunes, audible amazon music and so on, but the website’s probably a good place to start principlesandleadership.com.
John: Amazing, well this has been a lot of fun Paul, learned a lot hopefully some of the listeners got some great valuable insights and tips here, just so that you’re feeling more comfortable on this journey because you’re not alone, everyone’s going through the same challenges as you are, some people may take a little bit longer and that’s okay, some may not feel like it’s cut out for them right, and that’s totally fine as well, but acknowledging where your strengths what you really want to do, have fun along the way and don’t be too hard on yourself right, because life is this long journey and for everyone that’s in their 20, so what if you’re not successful in your first, second, third time around right, you have 30, 40, 50 years to still try different things right? and that’s what it’s all about just keep going, keep trying different things and having fun.
Paul: Absolutely.
John: So thanks a lot, and I’ll talk to you later okay Paul.
Paul: Thanks John, a real pleasure thank you for letting me on the show.
